Are certain types of inflammation beneficial? | Tim Ferriss
Get the full length version of this episode as a podcast.
This episode will make a great companion for a long drive.
The BDNF Protocol Guide
An essential checklist for cognitive longevity — filled with specific exercise, heat stress, and omega-3 protocols for boosting BDNF. Enter your email, and we'll deliver it straight to your inbox.
Some types of inflammation are damaging to the body, while others, usually more transient and playing a signaling role, can be beneficial. Chronic inflammation creates reactive oxygen species that damage DNA, cellular proteins, and lipids. This type of inflammation plays a key role in the development of many diseases, including cancer, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes. Conversely, things like heat stress, cold stress and exercise generate short bursts of inflammatory signaling that may be may be broadly beneficial to the body. These transient stressors induce the expression of genes that process inflammatory molecules. In this clip, Tim Ferriss and Dr. Rhonda Patrick discuss acute versus chronic inflammation and how supplemental antioxidants can negate some of the benefits of exercise.
- Tim: But on the inflammation side, I've been thinking a lot about this recently because number one, and this is not that uncommon, but I've noticed that if I consume carbohydrates, cycling carbohydrates and I'll do a cheat day like yesterday where I'm eating an entire pound cake by myself, this kind of thing, and then even several hours later, I get acupuncture and that's a whole separate conversation, but I will bleed more. I will bleed much more than if I am, say in a ketotic state. But then I have all these questions that come to mind. For instance, I'm consuming like turmeric with ground pepper. I always read it. I never say it, piperine?
- Rhonda: Yeah, piperine.
- Tim: There we go. So to increase the bioavailability and absorption. So that's pretty old school. You've got turmeric, curcumin pills or whatever. There are a million ways to go about it. But I've tried to whenever possible . . . so, you have like L-methylfolate, let's say. Very interesting to me. But unless I'm mistaken, pretty new kid on the block. It's a relatively new addition to the supplement arsenal. Whereas like turmeric, it's like, Ayurvedic medicine, they've been doing that for thousands of years. I feel pretty comfortable bringing in turmeric tea with some ginger and black pepper to counteract unnecessary inflammation. At the same time I'm like inflammation . . . this is where maybe you can help me gain some clarity, but I'm like inflammation also serves some really important purposes, right? If, for instance, you have people go do a weight training workout, there's a fair amount of empirical data, I don't know if there's research data to support this, where athletes will be like, "Oh my god, I don't want to be so sort out of my workout. I'll take like NSAIDs, Advil, Ibuprofen, whatever, to facilitate recovery." In fact, then they have less hypertrophy and they have less muscle growth as a result. So it's like what is the inflammation that we want to not interfere with versus the inflammation that we should try to prevent.
- Rhonda: Yes. I think that it's something I've been thinking about in a similar way with inflammation and also antioxidants because I think that the type that you want to interfere with is the colonic inflammation, the kind that's coming from your gut, that's leaking endotoxin, which is released from like dead bacteria and it causes all sorts of damage because it binds to cholesterol. Anyways, I can get into this whole conversation. But it's the bad stuff. The inflammation that's causing that chronic reactive oxygen species which damages DNA, proteins, lipids in your cells which gets into the brain and stops serotonin from being released, so it causes depression and things like that.
- Tim: Sounds like a bad cycle.
- Rhonda: Yes. Very viscous cycle too because then you start to activate more inflammatory molecules. I think the good type of inflammation, the good type of damage, the good type of stress is when you exercise, is when you're doing that type of exercise or heat stress or cold stress or that type of transient stress on the body that induces all these, the expression of genes that deal with stress so you're increasing the expression of all these good genes that deal with inflammation expressed. Having that inflammation, having that stress is critical to do that. That's how turmeric works and curcumin. One of the ways it works is it's actually slightly toxic to us. Because it's slightly toxic to us, our body goes, "Oh wait a minute, I need to increase the expression of all these genes so they make more of the gene to do all this good stuff, to fight inflammation, to fight reactive oxygen species, all that bad stuff. So I think it's sort of like . . .
- Tim: It's like what Dread Private Roberts did in "Princess Bride" with iocane powder.
- Rhonda: Yes.
- Tim: A little bit every day.
- Rhonda: Yes. But it's like the chronic versus acute, good type of stress. So that's what I think about. I also have been thinking about it in regards to supplemental antioxidants. I used to take a lot of vitamin C, supplemental vitamin C. And there were studies that we're showing taking two grams of supplemental vitamin C a day with lower C-reactive protein and there are all these reasons why I was taking it. But then, studies started to come out where if you take the supplemental vitamin C like after a workout, the half life is like an hour in a half in the plasma or something. Then, when you work out, you create oxidated stress and you want that. That's what induces mitochondrial biogenesis. That stress is what signals to the mitochondria to make more mitochondria. But if you dampen that by like sequestering that stress with an antioxidant, we're not going to get those benefits. There are studies now showing this both in humans and mouse animals. So now I'm kind of a little more cautious about supplemental antioxidants specifically because they can sequester some of that good stress that you want from things like exercise or intermittent fasting, for example, things like that.
- Tim: Wow. Interesting. So you think antioxidants could negate some of the benefits of, say, intermittent fasting.
- Rhonda: Yes. They can. And it's been shown that that can.
- Tim: That's good to know.
- Rhonda: Supplemental antioxidants, because when you're intermittent fasting, a lot of things are going on, but it is a type of stress. When you're stressing your cells, you're creating reactive oxygen species. That's what happens. And part of that, there's a hermetic effect. So when you create these reactive oxygen species . . . and this is the good type of stress. Creating the good type of species because you're chronically inflamed because you're eating processed carbohydrates and you're poking holes in your gut leading to inflammation and blah, blah, blah, that's not the good type. You don't want that constant reactive oxygen species being made every day. But when you're intermittent fasting or you're exercising, that burst of it, which is much more powerful, so it's not like a little bit each day, it's like, "Boom, here I am." It's enough to signal to your genes, to other cells, "Make more of this gene that deals with inflammation. Make more of this gene that deals with stress. Make more mitochondria." It's just enough to do that. You want. Some of the benefits of intermittent fasting and exercise rely on that.
A molecule that inhibits oxidative damage to DNA, proteins, and lipids in cells. Oxidative damage plays a role in the aging process, cancer, and neurodegeneration. Many vitamins and plant-based compounds are antioxidants.
An ancient system of medicine. Ayurvedic medicine originated in India more than 3,000 years ago. It is based on a holistic approach that emphasizes treating both mind and body through diet, exercise, sleep, relaxation, and mindfulness.
The extent and rate at which drugs or other substances, such as plant-based dietary compounds, enter the body’s circulation. Bioavailability is influenced by a variety of factors, including dose, the presence of other foods or substances, and interindividual differences in metabolism due to gut absorptive surface and commensal microbial populations.
A waxy lipid produced primarily in the liver and intestines. Cholesterol can be synthesized endogenously and is present in all the body's cells, where it participates in many physiological functions, including fat metabolism, hormone production, vitamin D synthesis, and cell membrane integrity. Dietary sources of cholesterol include egg yolks, meat, and cheese.
A ring-shaped protein found in blood plasma. CRP levels rise in response to inflammation and infection or following a heart attack, surgery, or trauma. CRP is one of several proteins often referred to as acute phase reactants. Binding to phosphocholine expressed on the surface of dead or dying cells and some bacteria, CRP activates the complement system and promotes phagocytosis by macrophages, resulting in the clearance of apoptotic cells and bacteria. The high-sensitivity CRP test (hsCRP) measures very precise levels in the blood to identify low levels of inflammation associated with the risk of developing cardiovascular disease.
An antioxidant compound produced by the plant Curcuma longa, a member of the ginger family. Curcumin exhibits a wide array of beneficial health effects, including anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, and anti-diabetes properties. It is responsible for the bright yellow pigment of turmeric, a type of spice commonly used in Indian food.
A mood disorder characterized by profound sadness, fatigue, altered sleep and appetite, as well as feelings of guilt or low self-worth. Depression is often accompanied by perturbations in metabolic, hormonal, and immune function. A critical element in the pathophysiology of depression is inflammation. As a result, elevated biomarkers of inflammation, including the proinflammatory cytokines interleukin-6 and tumor necrosis factor-alpha, are commonly observed in depressed people. Although selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and cognitive behavioral therapy typically form the first line of treatment for people who have depression, several non-pharmacological adjunct therapies have demonstrated effectiveness in modulating depressive symptoms, including exercise, dietary modification (especially interventions that capitalize on circadian rhythms), meditation, sauna use, and light therapy, among others.
A type of toxin released when bacteria die. Endotoxins can leak through the intestinal wall and pass directly into the bloodstream. The most common endotoxin is lipopolysaccharide (LPS), a major component of the cell membrane of gram-negative bacteria. If LPS leaks into the bloodstream, it can trigger an acute inflammatory reaction. LPS has been linked with a number of chronic diseases, including Alzheimer’s disease, inflammatory bowel disease (Crohn’s disease or ulcerative colitis), cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, autoimmune disorders (celiac disease, multiple sclerosis, and type 1 diabetes), and psychiatric disorders (anxiety and depression).
A type of water-soluble B-vitamin, also called vitamin B9. Folate is critical in the metabolism of nucleic acid precursors and several amino acids, as well as in methylation reactions. Severe deficiency in folate can cause megaloblastic anemia, which causes fatigue, weakness, and shortness of breath. Certain genetic variations in folate metabolism, particularly those found in the 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) gene influences folate status. Inadequate folate status during early pregnancy increases the risk of certain birth defects called neural tube defects, or NTDs, such as spina bifida, anencephaly, and other similar conditions. Folate deficiency and elevated concentrations of homocysteine in the blood are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease. Low folate status and/or high homocysteine concentrations are associated with cognitive dysfunction in aging (from mild impairments to dementia). The synthetic form of folate is called folic acid. Sources of folate include most fruits and vegetables, especially green leafy vegetables.
Biological responses to low-dose exposures to toxins or other stressors such as exercise, heat, cold, fasting, and xenohormetics. Hormetic responses are generally favorable and elicit a wide array of protective mechanisms. Examples of xenohormetic substances include plant polyphenols – molecules that plants produce in response to stress. Some evidence suggests plant polyphenols may have longevity-conferring effects when consumed in the diet.
A critical element of the body’s immune response. Inflammation occurs when the body is exposed to harmful stimuli, such as pathogens, damaged cells, or irritants. It is a protective response that involves immune cells, cell-signaling proteins, and pro-inflammatory factors. Acute inflammation occurs after minor injuries or infections and is characterized by local redness, swelling, or fever. Chronic inflammation occurs on the cellular level in response to toxins or other stressors and is often “invisible.” It plays a key role in the development of many chronic diseases, including cancer, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes.
A broad term that describes periods of voluntary abstention from food and (non-water) drinks, lasting several hours to days. Depending on the length of the fasting period and a variety of other factors, intermittent fasting may promote certain beneficial metabolic processes, such as the increased production of ketones due to the use of stored fat as an energy source. The phrase “intermittent fasting” may refer to any of the following:
- Time-restricted eating
- Alternate-day fasting
- Periodic fasting (multi-day)
Tiny organelles inside cells that produce energy in the presence of oxygen. Mitochondria are referred to as the "powerhouses of the cell" because of their role in the production of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Mitochondria are continuously undergoing a process of self-renewal known as mitophagy in order to repair damage that occurs during their energy-generating activities.
The process by which new mitochondria are made inside cells. Many factors can activate mitochondrial biogenesis including exercise, cold shock, heat shock, fasting, and ketones. Mitochondrial biogenesis is regulated by the transcription factor peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma coactivator 1-alpha, or PGC-1α.
Highly reactive molecules that have the ability to oxidize other molecules and cause them to lose electrons. Common oxidants are oxygen, hydrogen peroxide, and superoxide anion.
Oxygen-containing chemically-reactive molecules generated by oxidative phosphorylation and immune activation. ROS can damage cellular components, including lipids, proteins, mitochondria, and DNA. Examples of ROS include: peroxides, superoxide, hydroxyl radical, and singlet oxygen.
A related byproduct, reactive nitrogen species, is also produced naturally by the immune system. Examples of RNS include nitric oxide, peroxynitrite, and nitrogen dioxide.
The two species are often collectively referred to as ROS/RNS. Preventing and efficiently repairing damage from ROS (oxidative stress) and RNS (nitrosative stress) are among the key challenges our cells face in their fight against diseases of aging, including cancer.
A small molecule that functions as both a neurotransmitter and a hormone. Serotonin is produced in the brain and gut and facilitates the bidirectional communication between the two. It regulates many physiological functions, including sleep, appetite, mood, thermoregulation, and others. Many antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which work by preventing the reabsorption of serotonin, thereby increasing extracellular levels of the hormone.
A rhizomatous herbaceous perennial plant of the ginger family that grows wild in the forests of South and Southeast Asia. Turmeric’s strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties are attributed to its high concentration of curcumin. After being boiled and dried out, turmeric has a golden-orange color.
A potent water-soluble antioxidant found in citrus fruits. Vitamin C is an essential nutrient involved in tissue repair, neurotransmission, and immune system function. Also known as ascorbic acid.
Attend Monthly Q&As with Rhonda
Support our work
The FoundMyFitness Q&A happens monthly for premium members. Attend live or listen in our exclusive member-only podcast The Aliquot.
